The Man David Keene Wants to Hit
Today, NewMajority presents an exclusive interview with John Ziegler on his intense encounter with David Keene, president of the American Conservative Union (ACU). Ziegler achieved internet celebrity this week when videos of his hostile confrontation with Keene were featured on the Huffington Post (see parts one, two and three).
At the Western Conservative Political Action Conference on Saturday, Ziegler interviewed Keene about his disparaging comments on Sarah Palin, the ACU’s FedEx scandal, and Keene’s personal relationship with Arlen Specter.
David Keene appeared to be irritated when Ziegler brought up the FedEx scandal that the ACU was connected to. According to Politico, the American Conservative Union had offered to support legislation favorable to FedEx in return for $2-3 million. Keene responded to Ziegler's questioning by saying: "I'm not going to hit you, but I'd like to." For good measure, Keene also called him "a scumbag" and "asshole" and called hotel security. Ziegler was also disinvited from a panel on which he was supposed to appear later that day.
NewMajority’s Tim Mak caught up with John Ziegler via telephone yesterday to ask him about his account of the events.
On David Keene’s reaction to the questions about the FedEx deal...
It was very clear to me that David Keene was shocked by the nature of the interview, right off the bat, when I asked him about his statements regarding Sarah Palin. So, by the time I got to FedEx, he was already extremely agitated...
The questions about Sarah Palin, he was probably surprised by, mildly irritated about, but was willing to put up with. I think once we got to FedEx and Arlen Specter, he was far more sensitive and agitated, probably because of the humiliation effect.
But this is a guy who is not used to being questioned. One of my theories about why this whole episode was allowed to transpire is that, in his own little world, no one ever asks him these sorts of questions...
The conservative media is afraid of him and doesn’t want to be punished by him, doesn’t want to risk their precious speaking engagement at CPAC every year, so they’re never going to do anything to question him. Therefore, in his own mind he can rationalize that the FedEx thing is not a big deal, because after all, no one asked him about it.
On whether he had originally intended to ask Keene about FedEx and Specter...
I had arranged for a camera crew to tape my speaking engagement, for my part of the panel [at WCPAC]. I then saw David Keene there and asked him whether he would do an interview... I had always intended if I got the opportunity and the proper setting, to ask David Keene about the issues that I asked about in the interview.
On whether confronting Keene was payback for his comments about Sarah Palin...
I will be the first to acknowledge that my passion here, what I’ve dedicated my life to over the last year, is to try to correct the historical record about the 2008 election with regard to the treatment of Obama and the treatment of Palin... Would I describe it as payback? No... payback is doing something that is wrong in order to exert some sort of punishment for someone having done you harm. That’s not the way I view this.
On why he asked about the FedEx deal...
I’m a big believer in there being some accountability when people do wrong, regardless of their political persuasion. I’m a big believer in [the idea] that the conservative movement needs to purge itself of people who are not true to the cause and who actually have their personal agenda ahead of the cause. The cause is greater than any individual...
I find it amazing that some people are doing this to garner personal attention. This is not going to help me at all, and I knew that this was going to happen.
I was basically doing the job that should have been done by dozens of other people at this point. John Fund was there – I’m sure he’ll never even write about this episode... there’s a guy who should have shined a light on this a long time ago. It’s disturbing to see the massive amount of cowardice [in the right-wing blogosphere].
On his prior relationship with David Keene...
I’ve spoken at CPAC for the last three years... progressively each year I had my eyes opened as I got to see more of the sausage being made, regarding the nature of CPAC. In February, as a co-sponsor I went to a couple of the planning meetings, and it was at those meetings that I started to realize that [David Keene] was a sell-out. Specifically, over the issue of rewarding people who were also sell-outs to the cause.
On the CPAC speaking roster...
There are two names I vividly remember mentioning in planning meetings... and David Keene agreed with the concept that people who had sold out the movement shouldn’t be rewarded.
The two names that I remember were Joe Scarborough and Jerome Corsi... even though I was told they would not be on the schedule, not only were they on the schedule, but they were there in prime situations.
On the changes he wants to see in the movement...
I’m a realist at heart. I don’t pretend to have the power to exact any change at all... in an ideal world, I just want to be led by people who have the "cause" as their main motivation! It really bugs me that no one will sacrifice anything for the "cause", it’s all about personal agendas and economic agendas... I’m just looking for some sense of accountability.
On what this incident means for his place in the movement and his career...
[This incident] could potentially do great damage, but I expected that. I wouldn’t have done this if I wasn’t willing to accept that as a possibility... but if being in the conservative movement means having to kiss up to frauds like David Keene, then I’ve got better things to do with my life! I know that I could be incredibly productive for the conservative movement, I think I already have been in many ways.
Whether there’s a place [for me] in today’s conservative movement is really up in the air. If there isn’t, then so be it! I’ve done my best and tried to do everything I thought was right, and I honestly don’t know what will happen next.
There’s a large part of me that probably thinks it’s best to just get out of the rat race. It’s been very, very clear to me that the conservative movement is not willing or able to support somebody who lays it on the line for the truth and for the "cause." If there’s one thing I’ve proven over the last year with my film Media Malpractice, then I think that’s it.